Surviving 9/11: A Cop's Testimony of Faith and Resilience (Part 1)

Part 1 of Pastor Carlos Aviles (Senior Pastor of Calvary Chapel Clermont in Clermont, FL) sharing with Daniel Mamora and Pastor Gary Kusunoki his remarkable journey from being a NYPD officer to a dedicated pastor, recounting his experiences during 9/11, the challenges of ministry, and the power of faith in overcoming adversity. This episode offers deep insights into the realities of law enforcement, the spiritual impact of tragedy, and the importance of perseverance in ministry. This compelling interview recounts personal stories and lessons from 9/11, highlighting divine appointments, community resilience, and faith-based outreach efforts in New York City. It offers insights into the spiritual and practical responses to tragedy, emphasizing prayer, unity, and service.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Gospel, the broadcast ministry of integrative national leaders. Where our ministry is to share the level of rights with others around the world. We decided on the rate of leaders to preach the gospel to unreached people. Ministers of the United States empowered working areas in the U.S. and abroad. Provide support to local police in the organizations in response to national disasters. We work to train up capitalists in the police of civilian industry. And we assist church mission in disaster response. We hope you're blessed by what you hear in this next half hour or so about what God is doing through this ministry. And now here's your host, Daniel Memora. Well, hello, guys, and welcome to another episode of God's Stories here. Daniel is here, and we've got uh a special guest with us, along with Pastor Gary. Uh joining us here is Pastor Carlos Avilas. He's the pastor at Calvary Chapel in Claremont, Florida. And uh um first of all, Pastor Carlos, uh, thank you so much for joining us. I know, I know with life and ministry, you know, things could just come out of nowhere. And uh, I mean, can you just fill uh everybody in like what just happened today? And just, you know, I mean, I mean, first of all, thank you for so much for just putting your time in just to talk with us and just kind of like so that people understand, you know, the pastor's role or just in life and ministry, like just can you just explain just briefly what happened today and just you know, like we were trying to schedule it for earlier or even last week, and then of course life happens and ministry. Yeah, I mean, go for it. Can you just share?

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Yeah, and this is a part where they say, would they say count the costs? You're gonna do something for the Lord, count the cost. There was times at three o'clock in the morning, they call me up. I have to go rush to the hospital or break up a family. Well, don't break up the family, try to get the family together. What kind of passion is that, right? Break it up, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

We're done. No.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Ministry is strange, you know, and you have to count the cost because there's times that you're not gonna spend time with your family. Today, like uh we had this uh last week, uh we were supposed to meet. And we couldn't meet, something else that went on. We had a lady pass away, and and we had to take care of their family there, and then the next thing you know, we we arranged this to meet again, and then the hospital calls me. Uh, your chaplain, uh you're the pastor of this, uh, yeah. And we end up an hour and a half drive to go to the hospital. I wouldn't mind because that's our job, you know, as pastors. Uh, I'll tell you a quick story about when I was a uh assistant pastor on a Calvary Chapel in Florida after I came down, and uh they put me in charge of the men's fellowship and counseling. So they gave me this couple that would always have problems. They're always in the pastor's office every week. Every week in the pastor's office. So I guess since I was a rookie pastor in there, hey, this couple's for you, you know. So they come in my office and I are friendly, and we start talking, they were arguing together. Both of them was arguing. And so I looked at them and I said, hey, here's the Bible, and let's uh guard them like this, and so and so, and putting them together. So they they left mad. The next week they come back again, same thing. Then the following, the third week, I sat there and I just was digging them, you know, like, see what's happening. They started arguing. So I says, you know what? Give me a give me a minute. I said, told them, give me a minute. I opened the Bible in front of them and I went to lunch. When I got back from lunch, they were kissing and hugging, and you know what they told me? That was the best counseling I gave them. I wasn't even there. It was the Holy Spirit. I went, I had musket running down my thing. What I they probably thought I went to prayer. I want me. So when I get back, that's that's the way I guess God works that way. You know that? Yeah. So I told them, and I I I I always said it was the Holy Spirit that did that. The Calvin. Maybe they needed that. Yeah, they just said, I'd be right back. I got up and then went for lunch. And I got back, there was kissing, and yay. That's part of ministry.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Man, you just you think you just see everything that happens in ministry. No, but it's like there's all like it never ceases to amaze just like what pastors and even leader ministry leaders just see on a daily basis, you know, because people that come in just on a Sunday or even a Wednesday have no clue what happens behind the scenes. And actually, this is kind of like a cheap plug for Pastor John Randall's uh book, The Other Side of Sunday. Uh, and uh I encourage you guys to check that out. It's uh it's a really good book, just kind of give you behind the scenes of what happens on a daily operation of church, of ministry, that that the uh an average person doesn't see or doesn't know about.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

No, they think we only work on Sunday, so it's like what's it like to work one day a week and play golf the rest?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Right when when being a pat like being in the pulpit, it's only five or ten percent of the of your of the week. And so, and then they don't understand the daily operation of I mean I'm not a pastor, but just seeing just working with my fellow pastors at at Calvary or just wherever, like that's you know, being in the pulpit is not the main object or main objective of the pastor, it's literally yeah, that's leaving the pulpit.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

And they said about 1,500 pastors leave every month. I say, how could you leave when you count the costs? You count the costs and say, even if one person was there, I'm gonna preach to that one person. What happens is when they get that one person, they take this sermon, I'm saving this one, we get 10 more people. You know? Instead of just preach what they're supposed to preach. That's what's going on. So I felt like that before.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

I felt like, hey, I prepared this message for a lot more people than this. I mean, Pastor John always has this joke.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Because you figure, hey, man, this is this is meant for oh, I can't wait. And you know what I find out sometimes? It's meant for me. The sermon, you're preaching, and it's meant for you. Wow. Yeah, you know that, especially the things when Paul is writing and what's he doing, and and then he says, Don't you know? Like, don't you know you should know what you're reading, you know. So it's exciting to see the Lord working in the pulpit, and not only that, people think, what a feeling when the Holy Spirit's working in you. Woo! What a feeling when the Holy Spirit's working through you. Yes, on the people. It's a whole whole different ball game in ministry, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Amen. Amen. Well, even before you were a pastor, and that's what we want to talk about, uh, you were a cop in New York City. Probably, you know, if it's not LAPD, it's the NYPD. And so, um, but uh, I just wanted you to share about like how you know, be from your life's journey, you know, from the beginning to how you got to now. And uh um go ahead, take it, Pastor.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Take share what uh your life story before I got saved. You know, I mean, yeah, I was a cop when I got saved, matter of fact. I said before, yes, why I got saved.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

And I thought because I was a Christian cop, which was great, you know, I I I uh joined uh cops for Christ, Police Officer of Christ, in this organization. It was a first turn organization in the New York City Police Department. They have the Irish, the Spanish, all kinds of organizations. So I joined this organization, Christian organization. I ended up to be president later on, and my thing was I had to kill a guy on a uh liquor store robbery. So I I killed a guy there, and I I I felt I took a life. You know, as a Christian, only God would take a life, you know. And it really was really um bothering me, you know? Until uh they told me, you know, Peter was a cop. I said, Peter was a cop. My early years on uh as a Christian, yeah, Peter was a cop. He carried a sword but not a gun. Then they went on and they prayed with me and things like that. And you know what? It makes a big difference when you be around other encouraging Christians and know this the the scriptures, and they could bring it out to you and bring it out to life to make it living, the living word, the active word, as the Bible says, the active word. So that would bother me and my time, you know, as as a uniform cop. Uh so many other things happened while I was in uniform. I remember one time my partner takes off. He says, I'm gonna take off today. So I says, All right, so my boss came up to me and says, Won't you take off tonight, also? I says, No, I'll save my time, you know, for a birthday party, something I could take off. So they put me, because I was in the task force, that means that we go to heavy jobs. We don't answer little jobs, you know, stealing candy from the store. No, we just go to heavy jobs and riots. So they put me in this heavy crime on foot to two in the morning. So I'm there looking, and I it was cold. So I put my back against the wall, took my hat off, put it on the side, and I saw this guy running. This is at one o'clock in the morning now. This guy, my tour ends at two. He comes out of some storefront. It's dark. Everything is dark. He comes running out with a shopping bag that says Macy's. I said, Ain't no Macy's here at one o'clock in the morning. This guy's shopping. So I put my hat on, I stepped out, and he I intercept him. He looks at me, and he's about to run. He drops the shopping bag, giant shopping bag, and he drops it, and he's about to take off, and he threw his stuff on the top of a car. So I got ready, my gun out, ready to say, what's this guy's nuts? So I cuffed him. I saw he had all that marijuana. It was a bunch of marijuana when it was legal, I mean illegal, and so he had this whole shopping bag full of goodies.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

So I cuff him, I got under radio, sent me a car, I got one under, going into the station house. They take me in. He's mumbling. The purpose mumbling, I go in the front desk of the precinct. It was a 4-7 precinct, and on top of the 4-7 precinct is my office, all the task force guys, you know, separate from the precinct cops. So they call up and says, Hey, we got a Velus here. He's got a big hit, you know, a big collar. And he says, Uh, who was his um partner? My sergeant up there says he had no partner. We put him on the post. So sergeant said, You did this all by yourself. The perp says, He's a liar, he's a liar. I said, What's this guy? Are you kidding me? I was only on the post. My name is only on the post. My sergeant comes down, and he happens to be a Jamaican guy, nothing against Jamaican, but he happened to be that. And he kept mumbling, and he called me a liar, a liar. And then he said, No, there was ten of them there, ten of them. I would have run, but you know, he says, uh they had me. And so I said, This guy's nuts. Let's put him in the car, we're going to central booking. So I put him in the car. When I told him, watch your head, bringing down into the car. What came to me, Psalms 91, he encamped your angels around you. And I didn't get it until I saw the guy watching. I was calling him a nut. Meanwhile, God was showing me there were cherubins around me. You know, the protecting you. You know that? And I believed that. And then I and then he kept quiet through the whole ride, put him in there, kept quiet. And then the easy arrest I ever made, you know? That's when I was in uniform.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

When I became a detective, hey, I sat on a desk like this, had my tea. I'm not a coffee drinker, had my tea, had my tea there, and guess what I used to do? Get on the phone. Hey, I gotta, I don't have to run after bad guys no more. I get on the phone. I like to talk to you. You have a minute? I see you here at nine in the morning. They will come at nine in the morning, and you know what I do? I buy them breakfast. You know? It cost me three dollars. A hamburger at McDonald's back then was 99 cents. French fries 99 and a small drink. I buy them, I become their best friend. You know that? You're hungry? They hey, you you I I work through their stomach. And then the hand off. Then the hand off. So then uh, you know, that's what I do. Buy other detective will get mad at me. Why are you buying them lunch? I says, because that guy gave me a homicide. What do you mean gave me a homicide? Because you know what? When we went to FBI school, they teach you psychological profiling. The more you touch somebody, I I I should have said this. Is this going to the prison?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Is this video going to prison? We don't know. We don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

You never know these days. The more, the more you get to touch somebody, you know, if I shake your hand and you give me the ass, that means you're gonna be a problem in the interrogation room. But if you go, yeah, no problem, and I go, you and my buddy, and start touching up, uh, then that means me, me, that's my buddy. I'm gonna buy him food because a lot of times we got collars like that. Other rest, I go into the interrogation room, there's detectives behind the door that works in my office with me, they're listening. And I'm talking to the perp. And I says, you know, so uh what happened with that girl? And then after we're talking and he's having this soda, he probably says, Did you hear about that shooting? I said, What shooting? Prospect Avenue. Then I keep quiet. Nah, nah, nah, I make believe. Ah, nah. Then we go on to my case a little. Then I says, Was that the shooting? The guy had the tattoo here. No, my cousin has a tattoo here. And he goes off and he's got, you know, talking a lot. Meanwhile, the whole world is falling apart behind the door because they're typing all the, how you said the tattoos? Yes. They're typing all the tattoos. Oh, where we get this guy, what's his name? Yeah, what it's not Johnny. No, it's Paul. Paul, but they're behind there. Oh, Paul! And they're doing that. And they go out and kick in the door of Paul while I'm eating my French fry with my man here. Always treat the perp right. And you get more out of them. You know that? That's the way I operate. So I find that detective work was the best thing for me. You know that? It was easy. Get on the phone. Sometimes you gotta go out there, do what you gotta do. But you know, at three o'clock in the morning, you're going into a uh a fire skate, the perp is sleeping with the fan on, he don't know you're in there. One day I tell guys, hey, okay, I got six guys with me around him, and he looks up and says, What do you want? I'm in his bedroom, and he's asking me what I want. I said, No, I just want to put this bracelet on you. Don't worry, and he's so tired, and I'm cuffing him. And two, after I cough him, he gets up, he goes, Hey, what's going on? Too late. Got it. Yeah. There's so many things we do.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Which I know Gary knows a lot about that. But yeah. Right? Yep. How many guys you locked up?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, we can all tell stories like that. So what year did you join the force, Pastor Carlos?

SPEAKER_04 17:07

Well, I I I got on in um 2084. Or 1984. I was working for the city, uh uh, which is part of the police department, given summonses. They were the transit uh uh transportation department. They were metamate.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

So I became the union guy there.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

And I and I joined the New York State Police. I was going to join the state police, and then NYPD called me. Then I jumped on NYPD uh 84. Oh, I January 84.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

You said 2084. I'm like, oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Yeah. I'm like, you're waiting. I'm like, all right. That's a good pension. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

If there is going to be pensions in 2084. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Pastor Gary, what year did you join uh law enforcement? Because you you were OC Church at one time, right? 1984.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Frank Colony PD. I was in 1980. Actually, I was state police then, and uh they sent me to the academy in 1980.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

80?

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah. Man, you owe me a police police. So wait, there so I remember there was state. No, not me, Gary. Yeah. I'm gonna mail him. I I promise that's not a setup. So I'm gonna mail him a walker.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

He's gonna be the only cop out there stopping cars with a walker.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

So uh so uh if I remember correctly, right, before 2000, there was uh because it was California Hyper Patrol, but there was also California State Police, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

And so so that because California doesn't have a state police.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah, well they used to, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:55

They used to, so I worked at UC campuses, and so they actually state police. They at that time they're state patrol. Now now they are, but at the time that I started, they weren't. They were state police? Yeah, it was University of California was considered state police, and then then we all got molded into the highway patrol, and then everybody became part of that.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

The difference between that, like in New York City, there's a state police, Georgia, the state, no, Georgia has state patrol.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

State patrol, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

They don't have state police, uh uh Connecticut. Arizona's DPS. State police, if something happens to the regular police department, the state police comes in and police the state. They take over. Highway patrol can't do that. They're not state police. It's a different um uh bylaws or whatever you call it. The law.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

So California has highway patrol, they can't police the state. That's they can patrol the state, go to riots, they cannot police it. That's why it's called state police. But highway patrol, Florida has um highway patrol. They don't have state police neither. Georgia doesn't neither. Uh just uh Connecticut, uh Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania has state police.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I know Massachusetts has one.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah, they police the state.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

And then there's Arizona Department of Public Safety. Not a state police. Not a state police, yeah. So uh and that I'm I'm glad you clarified that because they're like, oh, it's the same thing. There's the state police like, no, it's not, you know, because not yeah, you can't.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

I don't know if you clarified it because I'm confused and I I was there.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

So Yeah, my maybe maybe because of legislation, they changed it. You know? They could do that maybe because of uh it can't be budget cuts, it has to be done by the law. Like the like New York State, we got the penal law, you have another traffic law, you have to make the law, change the law. Like you guys have, I think California, you have uh let's say uh somebody uh assaults somebody. Over here we call assault one, two, or three. There's three assaults. You guys got something else. Uh let's say.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Well, we got assault with a deadly weapon or something. No, no, we got that. Causing great bodily injury, GBW.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

No, no, that's that. But I'm saying it's like harassment or something. I I forgot what you guys have over there.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

But Jerry's not in California anymore. He's in Colorado now.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

I know, I heard. Yeah. Yeah. He he's he's a snow cones over there. It's a beautiful state, but uh the place is not great. It's not good.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Uh you get you're gonna come over here and visit.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

Yeah, but I spoke in a couple of places over there. Yeah, a couple of cavalries over there. Yeah. What what's his name? Lion Lionel? Is it Lionel? Um, forget his name.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

The only two guys in the only one I know is in Aurora, Ed Taylor, and of course, uh uh Colorado Springs with uh Al Pittman. I mean I think his son took over if I'm not yeah, but it took over, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Al Pittman's son. Yeah, but you have uh what's his name? I can see his face now, a Mexican guy. Oh man, can't believe I forgot his name.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I'm blanking too. I think I know you were talking about. I know you're talking about it.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Adam, Adam. He took over there was a large Calvary.

unknown 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:45

And then he sends out. Is that in Denver? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Uh not sure who's gonna be. Then the pastor sends out people, so people stopped coming to his church because they came from the hour away and they started going to all those other churches, and then he the church got in the hall.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Which one? Adam Dobbs. I think it's Adam Dobbs. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

That they sell the property and Adam, no, Adam.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

It was Adam Dobbs because he came from Horizon in San Diego. Gomez. I remember, I remember. Was it Adam Gomez? I thought it was Dobbs because he came from San Diego. No, because he he was out of jail, he was in the gang. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Adam something. You know who it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

If you're watching or listening, please comment to clarify yourself who it is. Message us on Instagram at Anchored Relief or comment on our YouTube channel at Anchored International Relief. So please clarify yourself.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

That way we can make the record straight.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Let's let's stop digressing. And um I do want to crossroads.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Crossroads. Oh. It's a Calvary called Crossroads or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Man, I'm blinking now. It's probably not even close to my own. Yeah, we'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

So so what we want to talk about really is is 9-11. Yes. And so um maybe you can talk about where you were, what your experience was in New York City at the time of 9-11, you know, what what happened, and you know, I know that you lost friends and you know, uh fellow cops, and so you can just share a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Uh well, I was rushing to work, running late to work, the plane, first plane hits. I hear it on the radio, I see all these police cars just rushing. I says, Wow, one plane by mistake, but then when they hit the second towel went down, and I end up uh they put all the NYPD, we have 46,000 cops back then, and they put everybody in uniform. Detectives, everybody has to be in uniform with hats and bats. What the New York City police did, which I thought was the best thing they did, they took a thousand cops and sent them to Connecticut. They took two thousand cops or three and sent them to Jersey. They took, I think, three more to Pennsylvania up by the border of New York State. And I said, Why are they doing that when we need them down here? The reason they did that, we didn't know if we were under attack. If all the cops would go down there and something happened, we got no more police. So that's why they did that part. I was uh, so I was at road call, they told all the cops, don't go down there. Do not go down there, stay at the office in case we call you something happens, you know. And so what happened was we snuck down there. So we're all in uniform. So it was at one o'clock in the morning. So I told the guys, hey, let's just go down there and help out. Just see what's going on. We left. We supposed to stay in the office. We went down on there. Uh I saw a card table broken, you know, one of those you played cards on. We set them up. I put Bibles there so they could grab it. People, you know, who cares? Just grab a Bible. It was like horrible. So we go back to command. When we get back to command, the chief and uh my captain, he was upset. He says, I heard guys went down there. I want to know who went down there. They they meant to stand on roll call. So we all stand roll call, and he looks at us, and it was five of us full of ashes. And they said, Who went down there? Not me, not me. We had all these ashes, they they know it's me. And so I said, Yeah, we went down there, says, You shouldn't do that. We told you not to do that. As they're doing all this stuff, I didn't get in trouble, you know. Everything was cool. Then I get a call from the mayor's office. Remember that? Um from from um 100 Ghost Street was the mayor's office. They had me to come down, and and I guess uh you were just coming in, right, Gary? Um I can't believe uh what day was this? Oh, I can't remember. Mayor's next day or yeah, the next day I I gotta call my office. They thought I got in trouble because I was down there. It was the mayor's office that called me to work at 100 Gold Street. And then I don't know how you got. Did I call you? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

No, no, no. It was uh we sent one of our guys that was in upstate New York down, and um he's the one that, and I don't know exactly how we met up with you, but he's the one that met up with you, and that's how we connected because we arrived um in New York um just a few days after that. Yeah, but after 9-11.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Yeah, we talked on the phone. Because you told me, should I bring my gun? I says, How many guns you got? Bring them all. Yeah, I remember. And then soon Gary lands, I said, When trouble? Gary with a gun in New York City. Oh my goodness. That was it, right? God, God did amazing work there. You know, not only uh, you know, the tragedy we know, and to this very day, we have uh, I think it's up to six tractor trailers now. We had 40. We got six refrigerated tractor trailers with body parts unidentified to this very day, down at 30th Street and FDR and First Avenue, which is uh medical examiner office. Wow. And it's still there. Uh um we're just trying, you know, when they lock somebody, arrest somebody, they take the DNA or whatever, swab them, is is because we're at least we could find out for other crimes. Not only that, it's that body parts there that's still there.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Join us next week for part two of this conversation with Pastor Carlos. We'd like to thank every single one of you for listening to God's story. To connect with us, go to anchorrelief.org. And follow us on Instagram or follow us at our blog at Anchorrelief.blog. You could also subscribe to our YouTube channel, as well as our Apple Podcasts and Spotify. To subscribe to our text thread, text the word Air AIR to the number 949-384-9282. Again, that's 949-384-9282. Or you can call us directly on our office line at area code 949-432-6777. That's 949-432-6777.